Orion ED 80mm OTA


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Subject: Re: vote by Shadow
By: Anonymous (xxx.xxx.17.22)
In Reply to: Shadow (Original Message)
Date: 11/11/2004 07:58:33 am PDT
Lamont,

The only person on here without a brain is YOU!

When a car is reviewed, such as a Ford, does the reviewer compare it to a Ferrari and then give it a 5? NO!

He compares it to cars of comparable class ie GM, VW, Honda etc. If he awards it a 9, thats not a 9 compared to the Ferrari's 10.

So why are you rating the Orion against Astrophysics, Zeiss
and TMB that are in a completely different class. Anyone looking at the Orion would not even consider one of those makes. All he/she wants to know is - Is it the best/right scope for their budget ie £400 (not £4000).

And as the Orion has only one true competitor, the identical Skywatcher Evostar 80ED, it can quite rightly command a high score.





>So you call me an idiot and psycho?
>You must be one of the beginners who rate it a 10?
>(never looked through a real "10" like Astrophysics, Zeiss
>or TMB?)
>Whats you're IQ, "10" too???
>
>Lamont
>
>
>>It takes an idiot and a psycho to recognize one.
>>
>>>This "1" is for the average.
>>>Where a Takahashi is voted as a 4 by an idiot and as a 1 by a
>>>psycho this chinese ED is a 1.5.
>>>I looked thru one and see lots of colour and the fokuser is a joke. I also see (little) colour with my FS-60C but more in the
>>>chinese.
>>>Not recommended (only for beginners, who upgrade from a 80mm f/4 ahro)
>>>
>>>Lamont


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Subject: Re: vote by xxx.xxx.116.202
By: Anonymous (xxx.xxx.95.48)
In Reply to: webmaster (Original Message)
Date: 11/16/2004 05:32:28 pm PDT
>We try not to cast editorial judgment on the votes. There are many votes I don't agree with, but I can't just delete them without the site turning into a soapbox of what I think is good and bad. The site is about what its visitors think.


Could I make a suggestion, then? There is a statistic which is much more robust than the average (mean) vote - the median. It is not distorted to the same extent by outlying data points (like this ridiculous "revenge" vote by Lamont!), so it is a far better reflection of what people think overall. Since you already calculate and display the standard deviation, it's apparent to me that you know your way around basic statistics (;-)). So it should be a trivial thing for you to display the median as well as (or instead of) the mean. I think that the user community as a whole would really appreciate this!

Thanks for your good work,
Ray Butler


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Subject: Re: vote by xxx.xxx.116.202
By: webmaster
In Reply to: Anonymous (xxx.xxx.95.48) (Original Message)
Date: 11/22/2004 08:29:00 pm PDT
It actually is not entirely trivial as the backend this site relies upon (MySQL) doesn't have support for computing medians.

One of the reasons why the average got skewed so much by Lamont's vote is because it is a weighted average; votes by registered users are worth more than anonymous votes for obvious reasons.....If you look under the more stats tab, it displays the weighted and unweighted averages. Actually, I will go ahead and put the median in under this tab.


>
>Could I make a suggestion, then? There is a statistic which is much more robust than the average (mean) vote - the median. It is not distorted to the same extent by outlying data points (like this ridiculous "revenge" vote by Lamont!), so it is a far better reflection of what people think overall. Since you already calculate and display the standard deviation, it's apparent to me that you know your way around basic statistics (;-)). So it should be a trivial thing for you to display the median as well as (or instead of) the mean. I think that the user community as a whole would really appreciate this!
>
>Thanks for your good work,
>Ray Butler


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Subject: Re: vote by xxx.xxx.116.202
By: Anonymous (xxx.xxx.96.125)
In Reply to: webmaster (Original Message)
Date: 12/14/2004 02:23:59 pm PDT
With all due respect to all of you: webmaster, pro-Orion 80mm ED folks and to Mr. Lamont.

Who cares what the average or median or this or that other rating turns out to be. The bottom line is whether the user enjoys the scope and uses it often.

I have owned a number of scopes over the past few years to include 8 and 10 inch SCTs, reflectors and a Tele Vue 102. Without a doubt the Tele was the most used and the sharpest of all when viewing planetary detail. Yet, the larger scopes provided crisper views of DSOs. No surprise here, right? Each had its merits and downfalls.

I now have two children, an aging mother to take care of and other financial responsibilities on my plate and I cannot possibly justify having 10s of thousands of dollars tied up in astro gear. Hence I've opted to sell all my other gear and stick with the Orion 80mm ED on a Skyview Pro EQ mount. With that setup and the addition of a right angled 9x50 finder I went a bit over $1k.

Why is the $1k an issue? Basically when I weigh the money spent on this Orion/Synta system and the quality of the viewing I can only conclude that I have made a tremendously smart purchase! I pat myself in the back and say: "Hey, you're a smart fellow!"

For the money you CANNOT find a better APO than this little Orion 80mm ED. Period! I've observed through the highly touted Tak Sky90, and although the finish and mechanics were superb, I cannot honestly say that the views were MUCH better than through the Orion 80mm ED.
The views through the Orion are crisp and color free on most objects. Some show a hint of false color, but not enough to rate this a "1". LOL! Only a bitter, Chinese-bashing fool would do such a thing.

That's right Lamont, you can find higher quality mechanics on the TMBs, better glass on the Taks and Teles and better all around performance on the scopes and mounts offered by Astro-Physics. No kidding! You will also pay THOUSANDS of more dollars for such gear.

Your analogy of automobiles is a good one to analyze. I own a new Acura TL and I know that some hardcore Euro car enthusiasts will put it down and say that it can never compete with BMWs, Mercedes, etc. Guess what Lamont?! When the price to performance to maintanence ratio is analyzed, my Acura CLEARLY outweighs the supposedly "finer" European automobiles. By a loooooong margin.

The Orion 80mm ED, when compared to equivalent aperture scopes, of ANY make, smokes them in the price to performance ratio. This, I consider a smart buy and one that raises the rating of this telescope beyond the "10" ranking.

Regards,
JR




>It actually is not entirely trivial as the backend this site relies upon (MySQL) doesn't have support for computing medians.
>
>One of the reasons why the average got skewed so much by Lamont's vote is because it is a weighted average; votes by registered users are worth more than anonymous votes for obvious reasons.....If you look under the more stats tab, it displays the weighted and unweighted averages. Actually, I will go ahead and put the median in under this tab.
>
>
>>
>>Could I make a suggestion, then? There is a statistic which is much more robust than the average (mean) vote - the median. It is not distorted to the same extent by outlying data points (like this ridiculous "revenge" vote by Lamont!), so it is a far better reflection of what people think overall. Since you already calculate and display the standard deviation, it's apparent to me that you know your way around basic statistics (;-)). So it should be a trivial thing for you to display the median as well as (or instead of) the mean. I think that the user community as a whole would really appreciate this!
>>
>>Thanks for your good work,
>>Ray Butler


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Subject: Re: vote by Shadow
By: Anonymous (xxx.xxx.244.205)
In Reply to: Shadow (Original Vote)
Date: 11/23/2005 02:41:41 pm PDT
>This "1" is for the average.
>Where a Takahashi is voted as a 4 by an idiot and as a 1 by a
>psycho this chinese ED is a 1.5.
>I looked thru one and see lots of colour and the fokuser is a joke. I also see (little) colour with my FS-60C but more in the
>chinese.
>Not recommended (only for beginners, who upgrade from a 80mm f/4 ahro)
>
>Lamont


Lamont

You are in a minority of one


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Subject: Re: vote by Shadow
By: Anonymous (xxx.xxx.138.143)
In Reply to: Shadow (Original Vote)
Date: 01/23/2006 10:10:57 am PDT
>This "1" is for the average.
>Where a Takahashi is voted as a 4 by an idiot and as a 1 by a
>psycho this chinese ED is a 1.5.
>I looked thru one and see lots of colour and the fokuser is a joke. I also see (little) colour with my FS-60C but more in the
>chinese.
>Not recommended (only for beginners, who upgrade from a 80mm f/4 ahro)
>
>Lamont
Are you sure your talking about the same telescope???
Have you read the reviews on the Magazines (Sky and Telescope) for ex.??
All of them rated this scope as very good...stange...maybe they all have some kind of problem with their eyes.


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Subject: Re: vote by xxx.xxx.116.202
By: Anonymous (xxx.xxx.222.242)
In Reply to: Anonymous (xxx.xxx.171.195) (Original Message)
Date: 05/15/2006 01:00:11 pm PDT
My next door neighbor has an Orion 80 ED. I have a Takahashi FS-78 and an Orion 100 ED. On many nights throughout the year we have these scopes out on the same night, using the same eyepieces, viewing the same objects.

As a frequent user of both Orion scopes and a competitive "premium" APO, with 35+ years of avid amateur astronomy experience, my conclusion is that the Orion scopes are excellent values.

If the Takahashi is a "9" on the 1-10 objective optical performance scale, price independent, then the Orion ED scopes are solid 8s. When price is factored in, the ratings flip-flop with the Orion being the BETTER scope; Orion 80ED "9", Takahashi FS-78 "8". They are that good in optical terms.

Factoring in mechanicals and aesthetics, the Orion scopes drop quite a bit in the ratings compared to the premium APOs. Fit, finish, mechanical motions and servicability are all significantly poorer for the Orions than for the Takahahshi. The Orions have medicore paint jobs, focusers that while smooth are not robust and are subject to misalignment and need for adjutsment, and lack push-pull collimatable objectives.

All factors considered, the Orions are solid 7s and the Takahahshi is a 9, but if you are primarily a visual observer , and care about what you see (image quality) above all else, there's little reason for you to spend for a premium APO given the fact that the Orions excel in this regard.

- Jim


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Subject: lamont
By: Anonymous (xxx.xxx.87.78)
Date: 09/12/2008 01:41:33 am PDT
lamont, you are a clown 500 for a sharp and color free(mine was) moon you have to be high or have suffered a blow to that egg head of yours to give this thing a 1.5


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